Q&R4

Q: Why does repetition need to revise into a different phrase?

Writers who use repetition usually don’t notice they have made that mistake, but tend to continue on in their writing. We learned in school to avoid repetition in writing, what people tend to do when they here repetition while reading, is they rephrase passages and correct it themselves, in doing so it helps them in their future writing. Repetition can make a writers story uninteresting in the choice of words. Readers are interested in different meanings to a story but when they see again, the same written sentence in a different paragraph the reader will be confused in understanding. The way to change the wording of a sentence repetition is to make it sound different, but actually, it’s the same meaning. Being able to revise a repetition into different sentences of the same meaning is like coloring a black and white painting, giving it much more life and presence. Correcting a repetition in ones writing will interest the audience to give more feeling, and emotion, leaving them to discover different meanings altogether.

Q&R 3

Q&R 3: Do the strategies presented in the article have any specific significance to students at the University level?
The studies done through out this article revolve around students in middle school. But the information and results the author’s presented lead me to believe that when applied correctly, the PQP method can be useful to university students. When reading in groups, you get to hear texts in another person’s voice; this can help you grasp the deeper meaning of a reading. This is especially critical when it comes to comprehending longer and more complex forms of text. You are then able to pin point personally, where and what the author could revise through constructive criticism, which can greatly help improve the way the reading is presented by the author.
Revising peer’s writings allows you to recognize things that, when revised, can help a paper be more organized and well delivered. Because revising peer’s papers requires the reader to provide specific comments that give the author general direction in improving the quality of their work, you are then able to familiarize yourself with these strategies and apply them to your own writings. That in itself has enough significance for me to conclude that the strategy of purpose, question, and praise can in fact be beneficial to students at the university level.

Q&R 4

Q&R 4: Why doesn’t the linear model benefit the “writing process”?

The article states that the linear model refers to speech containing two specific ways of presentation. One being based on rhetoric models and the other being the use of a thesis statement. Traditional rhetoric strategies contain stages which a writing must go through and follow. Britton decribes “the writing process as a serious of stages described in metaphors of linear growth, conception, incubation, and prodution”. This supports my observation of the text when it decribes the procedure presented for the writing process. I believe that this method consticts the author to simply following a guide line presented within the linear model. It’s important for a authors writing to be individual, contain voice, and engage audience to help in comrehending the deeper meaning of a textual piece. All of which, in my opinion, are unable for the author to express through their writing when following the linear model.

The thesis statement method requires you to pick one topic and go into detail explaning what it consists of and supporting your theories and observations with concrete evidence. This method allows you to gather facts about the topic and deliver them in a organized manner to your audience, unlike traditional rhetoric strategies that are aimed more at convincing or persuading your audience to agree with what you are writing about. The linear method, in my opinion, does not benefit the writing process because of how it requires writers to write in a pre determined format not allowing the author to express there individuality and beliefs.

Q&R 4

Why does the writing process interfere with revision?

It doesn’t make sense that the writing process that is used today would interfere with revision. As students learn to write and express their ideas more clearly, the revision method should be met at the same level. The revision plays a major role in the final draft and because revising and editing takes place it is important that both assignments are done correctly.
A writer must know to write correctly by adding their characteristics in the terminology in the text. A student who is revising should not seek to “use better words.” The linear model represents a way to describe discrete stages. Although the author does not agree with this method, it is the way most students have learned to write. She believes that the revision process is recursive by student writers. The problem presented in this article is that the reader or writer can grasp the concept which makes it difficult to revise. Comments to improve this task must be relatively specific to what the piece is lacking.
When revising a paper a student is most likely to use vague terminology. They focus on “using better words,” rather than using specific ideas on improving the text. Sommer’s believes that students have indeed been taught a different version of the linear model by using a thesis statement in which the student can follow to write an essay. The writer must be able to communicate to the reader without using direct terms.
I think that enable to actually revise a paper, reading, writing, and revising skills are crucial. Revising should not consist of just terminology, but making sure that the writer uses words to express themselves as individuals.

Q&R 3

Why do the author’s want to target students at the middle school level?


The middle school stage is a very critical step in developing writing skills. It is difficult to perfect your own essay without constructive criticism. I believe that it is in the best interest of the student to critique appropriately. A major part in peer revision is that the student knows how to read by using strategies. It is important to give a detailed explanation of the corrections. “We have found this technique helps student focus on the task at hand as well as maintain a positive attitude toward the revision process.” This will encourage both the reader and writer to complete the PQP assignment.

Now that I have read the article by Down & Wardle I understand how a piece should be written. In critiquing an essay it is important not to change what the writer is trying to say because that will discourage the writer. The positive feedback should be given with explanation as well, so that the writer will keep that part of the story. In this article the PQP was proven to be an effective strategy. It helps the writer understand what his or her piece is lacking. The reader should be looking for details and voice when reading an essay. Because peer revision is corrected in the PQP form, the writing has a higher potential of being an excellent piece.

It is important that this revision process is taught to students at a younger age in life because they will be able to incorporate ideas they’ve received in the past. At the college level the student should already be able to write an essay independently.
Although, I fall into the general but useful category, I consider myself being able to give advice to the writer. I would not mind following this format to improve my way of interpreting a message to be able to offer specific instructions in which the writer may choose to follow.

Q &R 4 How is revision helpful ?

When writing a text do you think it is right on your first draft? According to Sommers a writer is a man that puts his experiences into words in his own mind. What this means is that each individual has his or her form of language that they understand to themselves but when someone else reads it, they might be dumbfounded. Revision is helpful because it helps the writer get on the same page as the reader and makes the written work sound more understandable. Sommers categorized writers into two sections student writers and experienced writers. I honestly put myself in the student writers section because my writing form isn’t too strong but my ideas are good. I usually have trouble putting my ideas in order so they make sense, I just write and write and that sometime loses the reader. Even experienced writers can have trouble because they want their work to sound good and they themselves proof read and it usually takes several revision before they feel it is right.

Q&R 4

Why can’t writing be compared to speech? Is it possible to revise your verbal words? Why or why not can you do this?

 

Speech cannot be compared to writing in my honest opinion because, as stated in the text, it is impossible to revise your words. Once you have voiced yourself, you cannot retract your statement. It is as if you had damaged something irreplaceable, you may try to fix it but what has been done has been done cannot be erased.  There are other reasons why speech cannot be compared to writing, because writing is a process in which you collect your ideas, revise and edit, and publicize your content. However, I feel that speech is more impromptu. Speeches are usually well prepared beforehand though, usually the same as the writing process, but depending on the tone the person gives the speech in, it may have a different interpretation. The person may give what might be received by many as a bland speech, however, had the person just read the text, they could have concluded that it was intended to have this meaning, by inferring from the diction and syntax of the piece. One of the other things is when giving a speech, is if you happen to make a mistake, some more critical people may attack this and draw from this mishap that you are ill prepared and do not know the subjects as well as you claim. But that would have to be a worst case scenario to most people. I feel that there is no way for anyone to revised their spoken words, it would be like taking the information back from anyone who had heard what they were speaking of.

Q&R 4: How are both types of strategies helpful and why?

According to the article that Nancy Sommers wrote, there are two types of strategies: Revision Strategies of Student Writers and Revision Strategies for Experienced Writers. If you ask me both of these types of strategies are helpful in one way or another in many different ways.
The revision process for student writers is mainly based on a rewording activity. This strategy is always helpful because it prevents repetition of words or phrases. According to N. Sommers, repetition is one of the concepts that most student writers worry about. Repetition is very common, and it occurs when the writing imitates itself. Reviewing is also commonly used in the student revision strategies. This is always helpful because you can see what does not sound right, what is worded right, or what does not belong. This can also help you see if you have repeated anything twice. The strategies that are used by student writers are mostly teacher based strategies, and the students are comfortable with having met the requirements.
Revision Strategies of experienced writers require a little more effort in my opinion, but are also very helpful. “The experienced writers describe their primary objective when revising as finding the form or shape of their argument.”(N. Sommers 384) These strategies involve a lot of revising and rewriting. The experienced writers feel the need to rely on their own sense of good writing and to see their writing with their own eyes.
As you can see all these strategies are helpful in different ways we just have to learn to apply them to our writing and be ok with mistakes.

Q&R 4

What are the differences between an experienced writer and a student writer?

Students don’t dedicate as much time to their essay’s as they should. Usually they concentrate on finishing it as fast as possible and not really putting in the time to perfect it like they normally should. Most students’ definition of revising is just scratching out and rewording. They fix and clean up only what gets corrected and don’t take the time necessary to form the essay correctly. That’s why I believe, in my point of view, that they have so much trouble achieving good writing. Advanced techniques from experienced writers really benefit students when it comes to their writing. Taking more time to analyze and correct their essays can really help the students writing for sure. On the other hand, experienced writers look at an article as more than just another paper to write. Every time they pick up a pen, they become another person. They get so focused on their writing that by the time they are done, their paper is shy of a masterpiece. The article “Revision Strategies of Student Writers and Experienced Adult Writers” by Nancy Sommers the author presents some techniques used by experienced writers when it comes to revising. They don’t concentrate on finishing their essay as fast as possible, and they don’t finish their first draft on their first try, experienced writers usually make so many corrections on their first drafts that they are forced to do their original paper again; on the other hand, students only write it ONCE without revising or editing. Writing usually involves constant scratching and rewriting, analyzing and restructuring. “Never fall in love with what you have written in the first or second draft.” That is a quote that really intrigued me. Experienced writers believe that the most important idea in forming an essay is shaping their argument. Experienced writers are really dedicated when it comes to their writing. They don’t settle for the simple writing. They take the time to make sure their message is clearly portrayed in their writing.

Q&R #4

Q&R#4: Based on the reading, how do you revise? Is it similar to a student writer or an experienced writer?
Revision plays a big role when I write, it allows me to first analyze my work and then find ways in which I can develop it. I mainly focus on deleting, adding, substituting, and reassembling. Rereading my work profoundly can help me identify superfluous ideas, get rid of them and possibly insert some supportive ideas. I also look for words that can be replaced with synonyms. Inserting extraordinary lexical terms can help keep your reader interested. I often find myself jumping from one idea to the next, but eventually returning to the previous. Revision allows me to amend the way my paper flows, editing sentences out, and putting them in the right places; hence developing the quality of my writing.
I, like the experienced writers mentioned, “seek to discover meaning in the engagement with their writing, in revision” (386) and “seek to emphasize and exploit the lack of clarity, the differences of meaning, the dissonance, that writing as opposed to speech allows in the possibility of revisions.” (386) In other words, I take my revision very seriously; I look at the paper with the intent to edit, knowing that there are faults in my writing. I reevaluate my thoughts and ideas expressed in my passage and make sure they are structured in a coherent form.
Writing is flawed, and whether or not you think yours is or is not, it can always be written over and over again to sound better. “Revision is a recursive process,” (386) if someone wants to get the most out of it, one must repeat the process several times. It is good to keep in mind that your writing can always be made better.

Q&R 4

Why do you think that experienced writers revise their essay better?

Beside the fact that they are obviously way more experienced than a freshmen writer, the experienced writers knew the strategies to better revise and make their essays better. They have a better grip of what it is to revise an essay and because of this, they call it rewriting and revising. Freshmen writers on the other hand, didn’t have a very good idea of revision. They don’t feel comfortable with calling it the terms that experienced writers call it so they make their own terms like scratch out and do over again, redoing, or marking out. They don’t have too much experience when it comes to revising their papers so they call it those things. They said that those terms were used only by their teachers so they felt that they had to do so. Experienced writers are more on the level of the teachers and they have that level of intellectual when it comes to revising their papers. They know exactly what they are doing, and therefore, they can use proper revision when needed. They have the thought process of a teacher and therefore, they can revise their paper as so. They have a perspective that they freshmen students only thought their teachers had.

q&r4

What is the difference between Students and Experienced Adult Writers Strategies?

Sommers in her article “Revision strategies of Student Writers and Experienced Adult Writers” states the strategies of each of those writers. I think that we should know the difference between these two types of writers and then take the best of each one. Maybe the difference is the time writers have been writing, the experienced adult writers have had practice a lot more than students and maybe students have just learn how to write correctly. Maybe experienced writers have more ideas in their mind or maybe students have new and fresh ideas.
Sommers says in her article that students do not use the terms revision or rewriting, they are terms used by the teachers. Although this are common terms that experienced writers use. She gave examples and can be seen as differences between these two writers: what students do according to Sommers are “scratch out and do over again”, “reviewing”, “redoing”, “marking out” and “slashing and throwing out”. As Sommers says “students understand the revision process as a rewording activity”, this means that students do not like to revise their writings because for them is just like paraphrasing their own work and “they concentrate on particular words apart from their role in the text”.
While experienced writers use “rewriting” and “revising”. After asking some experienced writers, they “describe their primary objective when revising as finding the form or shape of their argument”. As their second objective, they concern about who is going to read their paper and make it more accordantly to the type of person that is going to read it.
So, the difference between this two writers is that experienced writers revise more their paper than students, giving them de advantage to improve their work.

Q&R4

How do you describe your primary objective when revising?

I find that I relate to the experienced writers described in “Revision strategies of student writers and experienced adult writers.” This may be because when I revise I look for patterns in the overall expression and general context of what I am arguing for or against. I can relate to the experienced writers when they say that their first draft is usually a general expression of their argument. I feel that this helps the writer communicate to his or her own self what they want to write about and allows them to search even further for more information to write about. Similarly I like to think of my writing as a more mature form. As it was discussed in the text students don’t know how to appeal to their teachers in their writing. When I read this I believe that no one can actually fully appeal to their teacher or audience, but having an understanding for their preferences gives an advantage and makes the writer more mature. It’s similar to the process of making what is commonly known as the “web” because in our first drafts we organize our text. Then, we can add detail to each piece of information as we revise. This form of revising, in my opinion, is more constructive that writing everything possible in the first draft, then only looking for the grammatical errors. This is because I feel when the writer looks at his or her text as a whole, as opposed to in small sections, more room for expansion can be found while simultaneously they will correct simple grammatical errors in their texts.

Q&R4

Question: What makes one an experienced writer and why is it useful?
Answer: As student writers we were always thought to revise our paper when we are done or simply give it to someone else to revise it for us. But most average students who revise their paper don’t take in mind whether if one has done lexical, conceptual or dictation errors. Most even just write to fulfill the requirements that a teacher has set for them. But as the complete opposite the experienced writer is more dedicated in detail and revision. The article “Revision Strategies of Student Writers and Experienced Adult Writers” by Nancy Sommers describes the experience writer as one who is able to learn the cause, condition and the product of the paper as well as the inspirations and influences that might have had to write the story. The main strategies that experience writers use is not a certain why of revision but it’s more of a recursive process. Where the reader read the story many time and every time he reads it he/she look for different literacy errors such as vocabulary, lexical repletion or even conceptual repetition. The author Nancy Sommers also mentions that most readers are not able to revise their paper correctly because they lack” new eyes to re-new their work”. Meaning the writer may not be able to see his/ her mistake because he/she already imagines what he/she was trying to picture. So basically experienced writers are those who have the new eye to re-new their work and are able use the recursive process.

Question and Response 4

If we students we are taught so much about reading and writing, why can we not recognize conceptual flaws when revising a paper?

“What they lack, however, is a set of strategies to help them identify the "something larger" that they sensed was wrong and work from there. The students do not have strategies for handling the whole essay.”(p383)

I believe that throughout our education, students have been taught how to recognize if a complete thought is missing in a speech. When students talk to each other, they ask for more details and ask questions, and don’t seem to have a problem doing so. Why then do they have problems recognizing these things in a student paper? According to the article, "writing begins at the point where speech becomes impossible”. This means that speech and writing are very closely related, and can carry the same traits. Students seem to not know how to deal with the same issues that occur in speech when written in a paper. I feel this has something to do with the lack of realizing writing and speech are so closely related. Do students forget that politicians write things down before speaking to a crowd? When a presentation is due, don’t students rehearse before they go up? If at some time, students read a transcription of a speech as they follow along, they may finally start to connect the two actions. I believe this will help students broaden their scopes a bit more when revising a peer’s paper. This would make it easier for one to understand what might be the bigger problem in a paper when it just doesn’t sound quite right. The problem would no longer be deduced to something in the words but students would realize what needs to be done are “semantic changes” (p382).

What are the techniques experienced writers use and how would they befit student readers?

Experienced writers look at an article as more than just another paper to write. Every time they pick up pen and paper they try their best to become completely absorbed with the topic they have to write about. The article “Revision Strategies of Student Writers and Experienced Adult Writers” by Nancy Sommers the author presents some techniques used by experienced writers when it comes to revising. The article claims take their time to do it right. They don’t concentrate on finishing their essay as fast as possible, and they don’t finish their first draft on their first try. Writing usually involves constant scratching and rewriting, analyzing and restructuring. There’s one idea that really caught my attention from the author. “Never fall in love with what you have written in the first or second draft.” Experienced writers believe that the most important thing in forming an essay is shaping their argument. Experienced writers are really dedicated when it comes to their writing. They don’t settle for the simple writing. They really take the time to make sure their message is clearly delivered On the other hand Students don’t dedicate as much time to their essay’s as they should. Usually they concentrate on finishing it as fast as possible and not really putting in the time to perfect it. Their definition of revising is just scratching out and rewording. They fix and clean up only what gets corrected and don’t really take the time to form the essay correctly. They don’t really get into their writing. That’s why I think they have so much trouble achieving good writing. Picking up techniques from experienced writers would really benefit students when it comes to their writing. Taking more time to read and correct their essays, just en extra couple looks would change student writing for sure.

Is revising really that important?

Is Revising really that important?

Coming to college revising is a huge lesson because your paper or what you read is never going to be perfect. In high school I believe teachers play a big role of why we don't revise "well" because they do teach us words like "scratch out and do over again" when in college and for what they call "experience writers" those are baby words. So, is revising really that important.... I say yes for the fact that like I said before not everybody's paper is perfect, but you also have to know the real definition to revising. To revise, is to finding the arguement like it says so on the article. Revising is the process of discovering meaning altogether and this where you see the importance of dissonance; at the heart of revision is the process by which writers recognize and resolve the dissonance they sense in their writing. When revising you get closer to the meaning by not limiting yourselves (writers) too early to lexical concerns.

Q & R 4

Q & R 4: What happens when students do not see revision as an important process?

The process of revision, as Sommers suggested, “is a sequence of changes in a composition- changes which are initiated by cues and occur continually throughout the writing of a work” (380), but most people, especially students, do not see it that way or do not want to see it that way. What I mean by this is that most time people are used to do only the minimum others require from us and do not want to go beyond that. A good composition requires knowledge, time, a profound revision, and a lot of effort, and if it lacks these important requirements it will not be as good as the writer wants.
Students tend to think that when the teacher says that it is necessary to revise the paper before the final composition the only thing to do is to change some words, sentences, and grammar basically. That is a big misconception that many students, and even teachers, have. The revision is not taken seriously nor the writing.
When students do not see the revision process as it should, the real and specific problems that have to be addressed to generate a good composition cannot be identified. Students tend to forget that the main purpose of writing is to communicate ideas and thoughts to a reader, influence and appeal to the emotions. Students forget that we want to cause an effect on that person not merely give a paper full of extravagant words that the reader may not even know.
Sommers stated that if we follow the linear model instead of the revision process it is even harder to develop ideas and change the direction of them whenever it is necessary (383). I have been taught, and maybe the majority of students has, that in order to write a good essay it is necessary to start with a thesis statement or introduction that catches the attention of the audience followed by a body (a certain amount of paragraphs, depending on the length of the essay), and a good conclusion. I am not against this method, it think it is helpful in a certain way. The composition is well organized so that the reader finds it easy to read, but I did not like this method at all because once I had written the introduction I could not develop my ideas so well. I had the idea that once the introduction had been written (which I considered the most important) I had to stick to it and develop my ideas from there. If after writing for some time I changed my mind regarding to a single sentence or thought, I wanted to change everything I had written but I could not because the intro was already there and sometimes the lack of time did not allow me to do so. I could not go back and start all over again. It was so frustrating and sometimes it still is. My sense of writing as a discovery that Sommer describes as “a repeated process of beginning over again, starting out new” (387) was there but I was not willing to take it beyond.
Therefore, it is crucial for students and teachers to change the misconception about revising and start using the process of revision, not the one that has always been taught but the one proposed in the article. That way both teachers and students can see and comprehend what constitutes good writing.

Q&R 4

Q&R 4: Do you think that the “rules for revising” affect the students in a positive or negative way? How about both?

Throughout our experience with writing, we are taught how to write a certain way. We are told what we can write and what we shouldn’t write and that we should look for the “shouldn’t” in other students papers. Some examples of the rules are “Never begin a sentence with a conjunction” or “Never end a sentence with a preposition” (383). However, these rules are “teacher-based” because they want their students to write in the way they prefer for the students to write in. These rules are then transferred to the students in order for them to write good papers and correct their fellow classmates’ essays. Unfortunately, the rules can affect the students in their essays because sometimes they “decide that they have not violated any of the rules for revising” (383). When students decide this, they are no longer prone to go back and revise their essays or let other students revise because they think that they did everything write. This is certainly a downfall for the reason that the students start feeling no need for revision because they think of themselves as good writers. I think that the rules for revising can affect a student in both ways, mostly because I’ve had experience with this. I remember that in junior high my English teacher would specify certain things he didn’t want to see in our essays, not necessarily because it was wrong, but because he didn’t approve of them. This really helped me when I was revising my classmates because I would look for those “certain things” that my teacher didn’t want to see and comment on their papers to be careful next time. However, these teacher based rules can limit a student’s writing and it can make it more complicated for students who are already struggling with essays.

By: Denise

Q&R 4

Why is the approach to revision of writings, that many authors take, fundamentally flawed?
Many writers such as James Britton and Gordo Rohman have theories about the writing process that model it after speech. They believe that writing follows the “linear model” of thought and language. That is to say, that writings arise from and as fluidly as speech arises from thought. With this line of thinking, revision is viewed as a separate process that takes place at the end of the writing process that comes after the first and second draft and is divided, totally, and separately from the rest of the writing process.
This line of thinking is, however, very inappropriate and inapplicable in the context of the revision of writing. When one speaks, one does not revise one’s own speech. The linear model of speech makes revision of writings, nothing more than an afterthought (N. Sommers, 379). The very thing that separates writing from speech is that one can go back and fundamentally alter writing at one’s own desire, while speech can’t be revised, not in the total and fundamental way in which writing can.
One of the main reasons why teachers still try to teach writing using the linear model of writing modeled after speech is that “there is a fundamental tie between teaching and speech” (N. Sommers, 379). This is only logical, because the primary way that people communicate with one another is through speech. When I have an idea in my head, and I want to share it with you, I do so by telling you, and so, when teachers try to teach us things, they do so through oral instruction. However, this approach cannot be taken when attempting to teach writing, because writing is a much more permanent and concrete way to express ideas and as such allows for and requires the process of revision to allow for its growth and perfection.

Discussion on Sommers

1.Why is Sommers arguing that writing is not linear (378) and why writing can't be compared to speech?

Sommers’ argues this because a linear model bases itself on speech in two specific ways. First of all, it is based on traditional rhetorical models, models that are created to serve the spoken art oratory. In Whatever ways the parts of classical rhetoric are descried “stages” of composition that are repeated in contemporary models of writing.

2. Compare the revision strategies of experienced and student writers!

Students don’t put as much attention to their writing. They focus more finishing and meeting the requirements than to truly work on making their essays clear. Experienced writers take their time to form the essay.

3. Sommers (386) says that revision is a recursive process. What does she mean?

What she means is that all writers, experienced or not, find it recursive because they are so used to writing and correcting their own work.

4. Choose one of the quotes and explain what Sommers means by it.

b. “If the students feel inspired, if the writing comes easily, and if they don't get stuck on individual words or phrases, then they say that they cannot see any reason to revise” (382).

If we feel that we know what we want to say then there is little reason to make revisions. What she means is that if the student is 100% sure of their work, they will not bother on revising it.

Jaime Arevalo

Dulce Rivera

Jose Garcia

Sommers Revisions Strategies

1. Why is Sommers arguing that writing is not linear (378) and why writing can't be compared to speech?

The reason why we cannot compare writing to speech is because when writing, people tend to take their time in explain, going into detail. Also when we write we can make revisions in our mistakes, making our writing more effective to the writer.

2. Compare the revision strategies of experienced and student writers!

The revisions strategies that expert writers use tend have a deeper meaning than the ones of student writers, because experts use the recursive process and don’t limit themselves to narrowing the topic.

3. Sommers (386) says that revision is a recursive process. What does she mean?

The narrator means that the writer needs to explain more about how he writes, and how he constantly is trying to revise his own work.

4. “What is curious, however, is that students are aware of the lexical repetition, but not conceptual repetition” (382).

Students are aware that they use lexical repetition because they can hear it, due to the rhyming it may have, conceptual is just a mistake in itself. Writers tend to make a conceptual repetition not knowing that they’ve written the same thing earlier in their article.

Article by:(Ishmael Nathan Moncivais) ( Aaron Herrera)

Discussion on Sommers

1. Why is Sommers arguing that writing is not linear (378) and why writing can't be compared to speech?

Because when writing is considered as a linear process, revision becomes "a separate stage at the very end of the process." Writing can't be compared to speech because, in speech, revision does not exist. The spoken word cannot be revised (379). For example, when a person is talking to another about a certain topic, the person may mispronounce a word, yet, correct him/herself right away. In other words, The person who is listening will not say "you must fix the way you pronounced that word," or the like.

2. Compare the revision strategies of experienced and student writers!

The strategies of students were more superficial. They only looked at the appearance of the paper and the repetition of words. They were more concerned about vocabulary. They focused a lot on the "thesaurus philosophy of writing." (381).

Instead, experienced writers focused on finding the form of the argument and how they took their audience into consideration.

3. Sommers (386) says that revision is a recursive process. What does she mean?

Revision involves a series of activities; some most important than others depending on the writer. Each person has their own way of building a cycle by using the activities and the time they think are necessary.

4. Choose one of the quotes and explain what Sommers means by it.

b. “If the students feel inspired, if the writing comes easily, and if they don't get stuck on individual words or phrases, then they say that they cannot see any reason to revise” (382).

Students get overconfident when they see that the text is easy to read. They do not see deep into the text; it is only superficial.

Composed by: Itzel Lopez and Rubi Garcia

Class discussion: Sommers

1.Why is Sommers arguing that writing is not linear (378) and why can't writing be compared to
speech?
A: when writing an essay the writer uses metaphors with current models of the writing process. the linear model is a realation of thought and language by using first, then , and last, revision is not taken into account

2. Compare the revision strategies of experienced and student writers?
Student writers use vauge comments as they revise. The focus on "using better words." Experienced writers offer specific details to improve the draft. An experienced writer will focus on the main purpose of their essay.

3. Sommers says the revision is a recursive process. What does she mean?
Sommers believes that the revision process is repetitive. I think she thinks that too many students use a vague process. The reader must be able to offer explained ideas.

4. " If the student feels inspired, the writing comes easily, and if they don't get stuck on individual words or phrases, then they say that they cannot see any reason to revise"

The writer will feel more contempt in he or she is not faced with such a difficult topic, therefore they will use terminology that'll make the paper "look better." When the revision process is being done the reader will identify the terminology that tells the story, instead of the writers own voice.

discussion on Sommers

Krizia Velez

Jose Barrera

1.Writing is not linear because it doesn’t repeat itself. If the writing were linear, it would be boring. Non-linear writing makes the writing more fun and exciting. Speech can’t be compared to writing because in writing you think more of what you are going to say. You have more of a complete thought process of what you are going to put in your paper. When you speak, you usually just say what’s on your mind. There is really no thought process.

2. Students writers are not comfortable with the word revision, “they understand the revision process as a rewording activity.” Experienced adult writers “often use the structure of expressions”. “They have a second objective: a concern for their readers”

3. She is trying to say that when revising, the process repeats itself. In other words, you can do the same thing over again as many times as you want. The process will be the same therefore making it better every time you do it.

4. “If the students feel inspired, if the writing comes easily, and if they don't get stuck on individual words or phrases, then they say that they cannot see any reason to revise” What she means by this is that when a student feels that their writing is well done, they see no reason to revise it. They think that it is perfect the way it is and want to leave it as so. An experienced writer would revise it even if they thought it was perfect. She is trying to prove the point of the fact that experienced writers take the time and effort to revise their writing even if they think it is perfect.

Discussion on Summers

1. Why is Sommers arguing that writing is not linear (378) and why writing can't be compared to speech?

She is saying that that people may take their own ways in the “stages” in that some might follow the linear model, however, some tend to do things in an unsystematic way. And writing can’t really be compared to speech, in that you cannot revise your verbal words. In that, once expressed there is no real way in retracting the statement, besides saying “I retract that statement. ” Yet it has been said, and there is no real way of revising what you have just said.

2. Compare the revision strategies of experienced and student writers!

Student writers tend to just reword their essays, not change content. They try to improve their idea in a way. They don’t often change their thoughts/texts to agree with the implied changes. And experienced writers in turn search for shape their argument around what they have said.

3. Sommers (386) says that revision is a recursive process. What does she mean?

She means that after each cycle of revising, you use different levels of focus and intent. The first time through we may have an intense focus on the piece, mainly to weed out the grammatical errors and such. The next time through we may be a little less focused, yet or intent may be towards revising the ideas and thoughts.

4. Choose one of the quotes and explain what Sommers means by it.

                a. “What is curious, however, is that students are aware of the lexical repetition, but not conceptual repetition” (382).

That students are aware that they might repeat themselves grammatically, which is pretty east to notice. Yet, when it comes to their thoughts and ideas within the piece, they are more likely to look over the fact that they have repeated the same general idea.

Composed By:

George Llanos

Geno Martinez

Ruth Espiricueta

Discussion on Sommers

1. Why is Sommers arguing that writing is not linear (378) and why writing can't be compared to speech?
Writing can be rivised in the to totality of its content, while in speech any attempt at revision would seem to be an afterthought.

2. Compare the revision strategies of experienced and student writers!
Students think that revision is simply rewording a piece of writing, and cleaning up the writing to make it neater. While experienced writers describe the revision process as finding the form and shape of their argument.

3. Sommers (386) says that revision is a recursive process. What does she mean?
When Sommers says the revision is a recursive precess, she means thatit is a process with dignificant re-occuring activities. That is, with each revision, the writer further developsand perfects their writing.

4. Choose one of the quotes and explain what Sommers means by it.
b. “If the students feel inspired, if the writing comes easily, and if they don't get stuck on individual words or phrases, then they say that they cannot see any reason to revise” (382).
In this quote, what we think that it means that when students feel inspired to write, they they have done it perfectly and feel no reason to go back and revise it.

Composers: Marlon Duran, Priscills Perez

Discussion Of Sommers Questions

1. They separate the writing process into discrete stages.Speech is how we talk, but we as students don't always post the same type of language with our writing.You cant revise speech and writing is always easier to revise and understandable.
2. Student writers "concentrate on particular words apart from their role in the text.
Experienced writers "describe their primary objective when revising as finding primary objective when revising as finding the form or shape of their argument"
3. A process with a significant recurring activities with different levels of attention and different agenda for each cycle. The "Experienced readers" always revise their papers and always check for any mistake even though its already a great essay. They always pay attention to details and want to make their paper as great as it can be.
4. Letter C is because once you start your thesis statement, its hard to go back and change your main idea.

Lizzbeth Morales
Denise Valdez
Ashley Torres

Discussion on Sommers

1. Why is Sommers arguing that writing is not linear why writing can't be compared to speech? Writing is believed to have a format and speech, it is more fluid and natural. Once something is spoken you cannot remove a statement. Writing can be a complex process.

2. Compare the revision strategies of experienced and student writers? Student writers want to be general. They tend to re-arrange words or phrases, choosing to focus on technicalities, rather than content and ideas.

3. Sommers (386) says that revision is a recursive process. what does she mean.

You cannot revise a paper once and it be considered satisfactory. One has to think of multiple ways to develop a paper.

4. "What is curious however, is that students are aware of lexical repetition, but not conceptual repetition" (382)

students would rather focus on "word play" or sentence structure in a paper than to see if the thoughts and ideas in a paper are complete. People notice repeated words but do not notice when ideas are repeated after the point has already been made.

Composed by: Joshua Villarreal, Alexandria Pierce, Daniel Cisneros

Q: How does peer respond help you develop as a better reader and writer?

R: Peer response isn’t always a liked assignment. Many students like me are very conservative when it comes to their reading. I personally have never liked having to share my writing with others, especially knowing that the purpose as to criticize. I feared sounding ridiculous and stupid. After reading the article “Research in the Classroom: Learning through Response” by Alice M. Gillam, I began to see the Peer Response in a different way. Gillam presents ideas informing the reader of the benefits one receives when peer response takes place. When a student shares his/her response with a classmate, they have to understand that the critiques they get are to improve their writing. Peer response allows student authors to see what the world thinks of the message they are trying to deliver when they right. It allows the student to see what needs to be improved in their writing and it how clear the concept is before turning in the final draft to the teacher. Peer response also opens doors to more interaction among the students. They begin to see their classmates’ points of view. It also allows the author to go deeper into thought of his writing. Gillam also claims that peer response allows the author to have a greater level of maturity and sophistication; however, peer response doesn’t only benefit the writer, it affects the reader as well. Peer response allows classmates to understand one another’s opinions and ideas; it also benefits the reader by developing a higher order of reading skills. This technique pushes students to practice strategies. Practicing peer response helps the writer connect with his audience before presenting their paper to the judge (the teacher). It’s a great way to improving reading and writing skills in both the writer and the reader.

Q and R 3

Why do we as students give vague responses?


I think that there are a few main reasons why students give simple criticisms or praises.

One of the problems could be that students don’t really understand the piece we are reading, or we are not reading as critically as we should. Sometimes we have a bad habit of reading a paper topically and not using the rhetorical strategies we have talked about in class, and therefore we miss the point of the text. Since we did not pay attention to the details and ask ourselves about what is going on, we only have shallow opinions about it. Often as a student I personally pretend that I understand what someone is trying to say when I don’t because I feel the topic is too complicated or it doesn’t relate to me.

Students may be lenient with their criticism of their peer’s work because they do not want to hurt their feelings, or maybe even want others to be lenient when their work is under criticism. Students might feel that the level their peers are writing at is exactly the level they are writing at, and recognize flaws in one person’s paper as universal. A lot of students are not confident in their work. And when students must “take a turn reading their drafts aloud as the other students follow along”(p52) they get embarrassed with their work. How can one be confident in the criticism they are giving if they are not sure of their own work? Sometimes the bigger problem is that students fear the criticism of their peers, when in fact strong and detailed criticism from peers helps a student better their paper. The constructive criticism helps students “revise with the suggestions in mind” (p52)

I feel that if as students, we can learn to be more comfortable with our work being criticized, and being more attentive when reading or listening to other’s work, we can be comfortable with giving well founded, detailed criticisms of our peers’ texts.

Q&R 3: Can peer response groups really help students improve their writing?

Response: As a student, and currently enrolled in English, course I can agree that peer response groups are very helpful. When my peers revise my writing, the comments or ideas that are given to me make me improve my writing. Also, these studies (peer response groups) suggest that with training and practice, peer respondents learn to read, talk, and think about writing with greater maturity and sophistication (98). By revising our peers writing we can learn how to read with an open-ended attitude. Our rough drafts are unfinished and flawed, by having other students revise the writing the students learn to make inferences, predictions, and constructive meaning of the text rather than just receiving it (98). As a student, and after participating in peer response groups, I have seen the importance that peer response groups have in our writing and how it is constructive in the classroom. By having other students read our writing and comment on it, it helps us improve and recognize where we need improvement. I personally have already improved my writing with the comments I have received from my peers. I also understand that most students would be afraid or embarrassed to show their writing, because they are afraid of being ridiculed or criticized over the writing. I was one of those students. I was always embarrassed to show my writing. I felt like it we would be wrong or not interesting. Now I am comfortable with having my peers read my writing. I understand that everyone has different opinions and comments, and I take those comments into consideration when rewriting my paper. I am not offended in anyway by the comments made and encourage my peers to be as honest as they can when reading my writing. I personally think that peer response group should be introduced early in our education, because the peer response groups will make students loose the fear they have of showing their writing early in their education.

In conclusion, as a student, I can strongly agree that peer response groups are important when writing. The peer response groups help us as students improve our writing, and most importantly it makes us better writers.